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+----- Thread: Suggestion For an Ammendmant the Rules (/showthread.php?tid=2436)
Suggestion For an Ammendmant the Rules - Riskae - 01-19-2012
As is currently stated in the rules
"2.1 Griefing is not tolerated.
Generally, "griefing" is anything you do that interrupts another player’s game experience. It can be as simple as jumping up and down in front of them while they’re having a legitimate RP coversation to destroying another player’s building for no valid reason."
I would like a clarification of terms stated in the rules such as "Interrupts" I would view the killing of a farm that someone spent hours building up as "an interruption of someones game experience" though according to moderator statements this is not true. This is the same as destroying a building that took hours to build possibly even worse.
RE: Suggestion For an Ammendmant the Rules - LlewynHouse - 01-19-2012
Although the farm has been created to cause lag... Interrupting other peoples game experience/immersion. So really bowsers farm comes under griefing in and of itself.
RE: Suggestion For an Ammendmant the Rules - Crashlander04 - 01-19-2012
I personally think that is a far fetched definition of grief. In terms of RP, almost any raid on villages or settlements included the burning of fields and slaughter of livestock (and rape of women but I don't think bowser is always online for every raid
).If this were not an RP server, of course this could be seen as griefing - but RP/multiplayer raids will always undoubtably have consequences. RP is a valid reason, contrary to your argument.
If anything, this counterargument should also stand to let players steal food from farms - without some grouchy, ill-meaning player being able to call grief on three pieces of wheat missing from their farm.
I do not see how this is the same as destroying a building that took hours to build, or in any way worse.
RE: Suggestion For an Ammendmant the Rules - Riskae - 01-19-2012
(01-19-2012, 06:14)LlewynHouse Wrote: Although the farm has been created to cause lag... Interrupting other peoples game experience/immersion. So really bowsers farm comes under griefing in and of itself.
I merely asked for official clarification on kiwike rules applying to the mass griefing of animal not user commentary on personal plights involving a few chickens which we had planned on harvesting for feathers soon after we had built up a large sufficient number of eggs.
RE: Suggestion For an Ammendmant the Rules - Crashlander04 - 01-19-2012
(01-19-2012, 06:21)Riskae Wrote:(01-19-2012, 06:14)LlewynHouse Wrote: Although the farm has been created to cause lag... Interrupting other peoples game experience/immersion. So really bowsers farm comes under griefing in and of itself.
I merely asked for official clarification on kiwike rules applying to the mass griefing of animal not user commentary on personal plights involving a few chickens which we had planned on harvesting for feathers soon after we had built up a large sufficient number of eggs.
Asking for amendments without offering opportunity for counter-argument or debate isn't fair
RE: Suggestion For an Ammendmant the Rules - Riskae - 01-19-2012
(01-19-2012, 06:18)Crashlander04 Wrote: I personally think that is a far fetched definition of grief. In terms of RP, almost any raid on villages or settlements included the burning of fields and slaughter of livestock (and rape of women but I don't think bowser is always online for every raidI have yet to see an RP reason presented for the recent livestock slaughter.
If this were not an RP server, of course this could be seen as griefing - but RP/multiplayer raids will always undoubtably have consequences. RP is a valid reason, contrary to your argument.
If anything, this counterargument should also stand to let players steal food from farms - without some grouchy, ill-meaning player being able to call grief on three pieces of wheat missing from their farm.
I do not see how this is the same as destroying a building that took hours to build, or in any way worse.
I was suggesting we clarify on exactly what grief is since at the moment it is "interrupting another players game experience."
At the moment you can call grief on a few pieces of wheat so I don't see why you can't call it for the mass slaughter of livestock.
If it took hours to make something and then someone destroyed or majorly damaged it in seconds then how is it any different? You offered an opinion but no valid explanation.
(01-19-2012, 06:24)Crashlander04 Wrote:(01-19-2012, 06:21)Riskae Wrote:(01-19-2012, 06:14)LlewynHouse Wrote: Although the farm has been created to cause lag... Interrupting other peoples game experience/immersion. So really bowsers farm comes under griefing in and of itself.
I merely asked for official clarification on kiwike rules applying to the mass griefing of animal not user commentary on personal plights involving a few chickens which we had planned on harvesting for feathers soon after we had built up a large sufficient number of eggs.
Asking for amendments without offering opportunity for counter-argument or debate isn't fair
Your post was valid debate whilst his offered no valid solution to the presented problem, he can feel free to take that debate elsewhere.
RE: Suggestion For an Ammendmant the Rules - bowser956 - 01-19-2012
(01-19-2012, 06:18)Crashlander04 Wrote: I personally think that is a far fetched definition of grief. In terms of RP, almost any raid on villages or settlements included the burning of fields and slaughter of livestock (and rape of women but I don't think bowser is always online for every raidIt very simply has to do with both the time and the resources invested. While you could make the argument that this is on a RP server so oke, it was also common during sieges to destroy the walls of the castle you were taking, so should it be legal to grief while raiding? The line has to be drawn somehwere and I think that it should be based on the sheer amount of time required to accomplish something. To construct a good building and to build up a proper herd of animals take comparable amount of time, although the herds do take quite a logner amount of time to build up then most buildings. I think that because of the simple amount of teim and energy required to expend to repair something that can be destroyed and seconds like this should be taken into account. It is clearly a fairly malicious act to slaughter an entire farm themselves. Cell (or maybe Gecko) himself even said (after a stated the hours it takes to build them up) "And only minutes to destroy" and then I believe said something along teh lines of "lol" or "XD" I thought I was taking screenshots but oddly enough they all saved wrong. So yes, it very much interrupts the play experience of a player to destroy their live stock. I would definite;y consider it griefing.
If this were not an RP server, of course this could be seen as griefing - but RP/multiplayer raids will always undoubtably have consequences. RP is a valid reason, contrary to your argument.
If anything, this counterargument should also stand to let players steal food from farms - without some grouchy, ill-meaning player being able to call grief on three pieces of wheat missing from their farm.
I do not see how this is the same as destroying a building that took hours to build, or in any way worse.
RE: Suggestion For an Ammendmant the Rules - Crashlander04 - 01-19-2012
A more explanatory, or definitive amendment to the term grief in the rules is necessary, however I do not find that killing animals in mass numbers, or stealing from a farm should be considered an offence worth a ban.
In RP just about anything is justifiable - which is where many problems with situations like yours come in.
RE: Suggestion For an Ammendmant the Rules - Cell - 01-19-2012
Well, time for me to step in.
First of all, this is a request for a rule change, not about what happened on the sever.
Seeing as this topic has already been brought up, I will continue with the argument.
List
- Yottabyte "Rp is not required in the Beta"
- We did in-fact RP, as it was not the best RP in the world, and it is not my position to state our intentions, that's gecko's specialty, and if he feels up to it, he can post.
- Killed chickens for meat, and eggs for our farm. That is what chickens are for right?
- Last time someone killed your chickens, Yottabyte congratulated whoever it was as they cause lag.
This list goes on. And this is not the place for me to put it. If you feel like we did something wrong in the killing of the Chicken, make a ban request.
On-topic. I don't agree with this rule. Animals are there to be killed, first come, first served.
RE: Suggestion For an Ammendmant the Rules - bowser956 - 01-19-2012
The fact that we have to draw arbitrary lines baout whats justifiable with RP and what isnt is stupid
They should be definite, and I think taht we should either allow griefing of structures with RP reason, or make this mass animal killing grief.