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+--- Thread: Please Read! Terms and Conditions Change (/showthread.php?tid=3036)
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Please Read! Terms and Conditions Change - Cerce - 04-17-2012
I would like to draw the public's attention towards the terms and conditions that are now being imposed upon us.
Quote:Whilst we attempt to edit or remove any messages containing inappropriate, sexually orientated, abusive, hateful, slanderous, or threatening material that could be considered invasive of a persons privacy, or which otherwise violate any kind of law, it is impossible for us to review every message posted on this discussion system. For this reason you acknowledge that all messages posted on this discussion system express the views and opinions of the original message author and not necessarily the views of this bulletin board. Therefore we take no responsibility and cannot be held liable for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy and completeness of every message.
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See that bolded, underlined, and italicized text there? That means that Kiwike can do anything they want with anything you put up here. Any works of literature, any ideas for names of characters, anything whatsoever now belongs to Kiwike, if you clicked that 'I Agree' button lately.
Since I know for a fact that these terms and conditions did not include the aforementioned text when I clicked the 'I Agree' button, these terms and conditions do not affect me, as I have not been notified of the change officially - and, if I would have, this post would have come far sooner. Seeing as how this is blatant copyright infringement, should someone post something actually belonging to someone through copyright, this section must be removed by law.
If this is not removed - I highly advise removing any and all sensitive information, or information that you yourself have originally made, or information that you would not want someone other than yourself to be able to use.
This includes private messages, drafts, and anything made up of any texts that are used within the forum and its extensions. This includes the Wiki. I urge the acting administration to remove these terms and conditions, or I will notify the authorities of this blatant copyright infringement.
I would ask that any and all who are also concerned, please state your support in the change here!
RE: Please Read! Terms and Conditions Change - Sebiale - 04-17-2012
Several things:
+Kiwike servers may not be located in your country of residence, and thus you wouldn't be capable of prosecuting them in any way without extradition, which I doubt any judge anywhere will grant. Serious cases of copyright infringement have gone without such requests.
+Technically speaking if the condition didn't exist when you agreed, you probably wouldn't be held to it in a court of law. That's why games like WoW have you agree again each time the ToS are altered, that way they have the excuse that you agreed to those specific terms if you ever break them.
+Kiwike wouldn't be eligible for copyright infringement charges anyways--it doesn't become a case of copyright infringement unless Kiwike tries to reproduce, prepare, distribute, etc, usually to a monetary benefit. Neither your or Kiwike is making money here, so the issue is practically moot from a legal perspective. No one would care, and Kiwike can claim no true ownership.
+The rule is an overreaction to pavja's spouting of legalese when he was leaving, even though that was a load of crap too. At the end of the day there's no real need to worry because Kiwike has absolutely no power to enforce it anyways.
Ownership and copyright are two different things: the originator of an idea ALWAYS owns that concept, intellectual property cannot be taken or transferred, only the copyright, and signing over copyrights requires paper work to be recognized under law; Kiwike has no power to claim copyright or enact legal action if you chose to ignore them.
RE: Please Read! Terms and Conditions Change - iDieForEXP - 04-17-2012
That boi up there, he's a smart one.
RE: Please Read! Terms and Conditions Change - partyars - 04-17-2012
Can you add a "I don't really care" option to your poll?
I don't really care whether the posts here are mine or kiwike's, we're all just friends playing a game aren't we?
I can see that some people put a lot of work in their stories and lore and whatnot on this server but I trust yottabyte that he won't abuse this.
If all this makes sense somehow, it's still early in the morning...
RE: Please Read! Terms and Conditions Change - yottabyte - 04-17-2012
I modified them to make them more clear and understandable. Terms and conditions are usually a long text of bs that no one can be bothered to read. The reason for this change is that I feel like having users remove all of their contributions to the server lore is definitely something we do not want, since it can create big holes in the complete server lore.
Of course we don't want to claim that we have made everything on the site, we just want to avoid what I said above.
A lot of large websites have a similar tos, Facebook for example owns anything you upload to the site. It's really not a big deal.
Edit: here is that part of the Facebook tos
Quote:For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.This is pretty much saying the exact same thing as the Kiwike ToS, except they have sneaky lawyers and we're just a bunch of teenagers running a Minecraft server. (Saera doesn't count)
RE: Please Read! Terms and Conditions Change - Spammuff - 04-17-2012
Saera never counts.
RE: Please Read! Terms and Conditions Change - Naamandre3 - 04-17-2012
Well let me give some input on this
This change is not made as an excuse to take away whatever you write. Or use it to make a book or turn it into profit of any kind. You should not see this as a way to limit you're creative expression or something.
It just gives us tools to allow our server lore to remain intact.
Let’s put this into a practical example.
In order to create a town or/an nation you will need a lengthy background lore of how these came to be and why they came together. Over the course of the server these town(s) or nation(s) will become and play a important role in our dynamic lore.
Seeing our lore adapts to whatever players do ingame.
Now if the creator of the nation would disappear and take away their story it would leave a gaping hole in the ongoing lore and creation lore of sayed nation(s) or town(s). Because the creator of the nation might take away the lore he/she has made in progress of kiwike up until the point he/she decides to leave
In order to prevent this we have the right to ‘claim’ this piece of text and leave it there as way to avoid sayed hole in the ongoing and creation lore. The king or mayor can simply be replaced but you're character would remain a piece in in the lore that kiwike has developed over time and helped create what is now that town or nation.
We do not edit sell or abuse this lore in any way but leave it there as monument to your work, dedication and creativity and how you helped the server progress as a whole
Taking away lore would cause other problems as well. Basic things as: “this thing/event was decided because you're character has done this” cannot be remembered cause you have not existed when you remove the lore. Making peace treaties or other things you’re character has done during the course of kiwike non excitant as well.
I hope you see why this simple addiction to the rules helps us avoid a lot of work and and fix any loopholes or problems that might occur
RE: Please Read! Terms and Conditions Change - Cerce - 04-17-2012
I understand the short-term effects, and agree with your goals... but I'm talking 20 years down the road. What if I wanted to write a book, and some sneaky lawyer looks back at my history, and finds that Kiwike 'owns' some of the ideas? I have no doubt that Kiwike does not wish to profit from my writing, or anyone else's writing. My worry is in the wording.
If all you want is to leave posts the way they are, why not just claim that you have the right to return a post to its original, unaltered state, or to any states that have been editted? It serves the same purpose, and does not bring about the same complications.
RE: Please Read! Terms and Conditions Change - yottabyte - 04-17-2012
(04-17-2012, 13:20)Cerce Wrote: I understand the short-term effects, and agree with your goals... but I'm talking 20 years down the road. What if I wanted to write a book, and some sneaky lawyer looks back at my history, and finds that Kiwike 'owns' some of the ideas? I have no doubt that Kiwike does not wish to profit from my writing, or anyone else's writing. My worry is in the wording.
If all you want is to leave posts the way they are, why not just claim that you have the right to return a post to its original, unaltered state, or to any states that have been editted? It serves the same purpose, and does not bring about the same complications.
Good point Cerce. Again, we won't be suing people for using their lore or characters somewhere else. Naam explained the situation well. We will discuss changing the wording of the ToS later today, as well as send notices to all forum members about the changes.
RE: Please Read! Terms and Conditions Change - Sebiale - 04-17-2012
(04-17-2012, 09:37)yottabyte Wrote: A lot of large websites have a similar tos, Facebook for example owns anything you upload to the site. It's really not a big deal.That depends on who you're asking.
You'll also note that the Facebook ToS isn't taking ownership of content, it only allows Facebook to reproduce that content, and then only as long as whoever holds the account that posted it hasn't deleted it.
The whole "keeping your stuff forever" rumor is a bit imprecise; they keep it only as long as you want to keep it up.
Your aim is a bit different, but I don't think Kiwike is out to actually steal anything.