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+----- Thread: Major grief of Kiwiship by asdf and seth. (/showthread.php?tid=3672)
Major grief of Kiwiship by asdf and seth. - bvcxzmn - 07-24-2012
This message mostly goes out to Yotta and Android, but also to the mods:
I went back to New Phalanx today to try once again to get my kiwiship back from the Vermilion Dominion, one that Yottabyte and Android specifically told me that I could have back, and I found it crashed into the ground, mostly destroyed, and lit on fire, with asfd and seth on it flaming me. All I want is my ship back, I worked long and hard on it and am very devastated to see it in the condition it is in. Yotta, I understand that I did practically gave it to them, but I wasn't expecting this to happen at all. I went in reassured by this rule:
6.1) Stealing Ships Is Not OK
People take pride in their KiwiShips and the experience would not be fun if there was a chance that they could lose possession of them. If you are caught stealing a ship you will be banned. Ship theft is the act of placing a new control sign on someone else’s ship and flying away with it.
This is the only rule on stealing kiwiships, so I thought there was no chance that it could get into their possession (stuck in their city maybe). This is not necessarily a ban request (but I would like to see them banned), all I want is my kiwiship back. Please help me, Thanks.
RE: Major grief of Kiwiship by asdf and seth. - iDieForEXP - 07-24-2012
Did you leave your ship close to them in order to raid? I think some people might treat kiwiships like beds in this respect:
- Destroying a bed
Although we don't allow one to destroy a bed to disrupt someone's spawn in their own territory, you are allowed to destroy the bed if it belongs to someone raiding your town and is near/in your town itself. The reason being that we don't want to give unlimited protection to someone and allow them to keep spawning in your town, proving to be a nuisance.
Whether or not this applies to kiwiships as well, I do not know.
RE: Major grief of Kiwiship by asdf and seth. - asdfasdflkjty911 - 07-24-2012
1. Android told me otherwise that it belonged to us. In which we told him what we were going to do. Never said we couldnt.
2. Saera moved the ship to where it was. We told her what we were doing with it.
3. We own it.
4. There was NO RP in you trying to get it back. You would either sneak around the town, or talk to other people about it. You should have talked to us about bargaining for it.
5. Of all of the choices we had with it, this was the most RP. We could have had it sitting in our town for the rest of this maps life, but that wouldnt do any of us any good.
6. There is a lot of RP in the choice of crashing it in the barens, there is signs we have placed inside of the ruins telling facts about the war of which it was a victim to.
7. In war, one doesnt simply walk to the enemies and ask them for their vehicle back. That nation wouldnt hand over something that is being used against them.
8. We did NOT steal this ship. Once it was crashed inside our town walls, it belonged to us. (We did have the admins saying otherwise a few times and then changing their minds... a few times. The final word we got was Android saying we own it)
9. From what I heard the ship was not funded by you, Tru3vil and his friends apparently funded the materials. They should be more worried about this than you.
10. We did not flame you when you came to talk. You are over exaggerating all of this. You came to talk, and we did. You asked for peace but we had no reason to accept peace when we were winning and didnt see why to stop, as you had nothing to offer.
(07-24-2012, 07:18)iDieForEXP Wrote: Did you leave your ship close to them in order to raid? I think some people might treat kiwiships like beds in this respect:
- Destroying a bed
Although we don't allow one to destroy a bed to disrupt someone's spawn in their own territory, you are allowed to destroy the bed if it belongs to someone raiding your town and is near/in your town itself. The reason being that we don't want to give unlimited protection to someone and allow them to keep spawning in your town, proving to be a nuisance.
Whether or not this applies to kiwiships as well, I do not know.
And yes, just to be clear on this, it WAS in the MIDDLE of our CLAIMED town. Technically all the blocks were owned by us once it entered those territories. Yotta even told them that it belonged to us once it was in our land afterwords, and said "you would be practically giving it away". Although android said otherwise before, then when they informed Yotta of this information (about Android saying otherwise), Yotta told them he would help them out since it was unclear. Although afterwords (guessing on skype) android was with us viewing the issue in person and told us that we owned the ship. I dont know if they have made any changes in the rules yet about kiwiships in towns, but if we are going off RP here, this is the most realistic way we could have done it, as for us giving it back was not an option (IC that is, why would we give something they are using to attack us with back to them?)
RE: Major grief of Kiwiship by asdf and seth. - sethd13 - 07-24-2012
Um yea it's our ship. Excuse me our wreck.
1:If i got tons of material and I worked hard getting it does that mean nobody can take it from my chests? No it is fair game.
2:We waited a long time for you to ask us for it nicely but you tried to steal it.
3: You guys crashed three ships into our home trying to raid. Why do you deserve to have any of them back?
RE: Major grief of Kiwiship by asdf and seth. - bvcxzmn - 07-24-2012
(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 1. Android told me otherwise that it belonged to us. In which we told him what we were going to do. Never said we couldnt.
Android and Yotta said many things, and Yotta's final word to me is that I could have the kiwiship back.
(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 2. Saera moved the ship to where it was. We told her what we were doing with it.
Just because a mod did something for you doesn't mean that what you did is all of a sudden okay. Mods are not perfect, they can't always make sure that everything that they are doing is justified. Saera was about to release my kiwiship the night after you guys took it, but she couldn't because she didn't have enough permissions. They don't share minds with the admins. Also, I don't believe that she did this for you. You are going to have to prove it to me.
(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 3. We own it.
No you don't.
(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 4. There was NO RP in you trying to get it back. You would either sneak around the town, or talk to other people about it. You should have talked to us about bargaining for it.
I tried to talk to you, but you killed me every time I got near you. Even when I was sneaking around to get my small kiwiship, I was going to use it for protection so you wouldn't kill me when I was talking to you.
(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 5. Of all of the choices we had with it, this was the most RP. We could have had it sitting in our town for the rest of this maps life, but that wouldnt do any of us any good.
You wouldn't have had it sitting in your town, I was going to fly it back to my docks as soon as I took it back. It was going to have a life after I got it back, by stealing it or reasoning with you, but you had to destroy it. Now it is pretty much gone forever because of you, unless I can figure out how to recover it.
(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 6. There is a lot of RP in the choice of crashing it in the barens, there is signs we have placed inside of the ruins telling facts about the war of which it was a victim to.
That still doesn't give you the right to grief my ship. What if you killed everyone in a town that doesn't have block protection then you destroy the hole place and say it that it was victim to the battle? That's still griefing!
(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 7. In war, one doesnt simply walk to the enemies and ask them for their vehicle back. That nation wouldnt hand over something that is being used against them.
I was not asking for it back, I tried to negotiate, but after you killed me every time you got close to your city, I was trying to steal it back.
(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 8. We did NOT steal this ship. Once it was crashed inside our town walls, it belonged to us. (We did have the admins saying otherwise a few times and then changing their minds... a few times. The final word we got was Android saying we own it)
Yes, however that rule was NEVER even remotely mentioned in the official Kiwike rules. Therefore I had no way of knowing that! Also, Yotta gave me the final word that I own it because of the exact reason that it was never stated anywhere in the official rules.
(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 9. From what I heard the ship was not funded by you, Tru3vil and his friends apparently funded the materials. They should be more worried about this than you.
I did not use any of shaun's wool that he bought from Tru3vil (and how did you know that shaun even did that?). I got the materials from our tree farm, MY! underground sheep farm, other supplies that I had on me, and minecarts and dispencers from other people in my nation. I built the entire kiwiship on a massive temporary dirt platform next to my docks in one day, I started early that afternoon and stayed up to 6 AM that day building it. This is my kiwiship!
(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 10. We did not flame you when you came to talk. You are over exaggerating all of this. You came to talk, and we did. You asked for peace but we had no reason to accept peace when we were winning and didnt see why to stop, as you had nothing to offer.
You were laughing at me -.-.
(07-24-2012, 09:15)sethd13 Wrote: 1:If i got tons of material and I worked hard getting it does that mean nobody can take it from my chests? No it is fair game.
If I got tons of materials and I worked hard for it then I built something really cool with it, does that mean nobody can take it from my construction? YES, it's called griefing!
(07-24-2012, 09:15)sethd13 Wrote: 2:We waited a long time for you to ask us for it nicely but you tried to steal it.
(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 7. In war, one doesnt simply walk to the enemies and ask them for their vehicle back. That nation wouldnt hand over something that is being used against them.
(07-24-2012, 09:15)sethd13 Wrote: 3: You guys crashed three ships into our home trying to raid. Why do you deserve to have any of them back?
You can take the one that I crashed after I knew that you can steal ships if they are within your town. The other 2 we didn't believe it was possible for you to take, and there was no way of knowing that you were allowed to. If I had known, I would have never of brought the kiwiships anywhere near your town borders and we wouldn't be in this situation!
RE: Major grief of Kiwiship by asdf and seth. - bowser956 - 07-24-2012
This seems like a stupid thread. Stealing kiwiships has been illegal for a long long time.
RE: Major grief of Kiwiship by asdf and seth. - sethd13 - 07-24-2012
Douchy whining was illegal before kiwiships were invented.
It's never mentioned in the rules that you can't hack into yottabytes Account and un-ban everyone but it's still illegal. Just because it's not in the rules doesn't mean you can or cant do something.
RE: Major grief of Kiwiship by asdf and seth. - asdfasdflkjty911 - 07-24-2012
(07-24-2012, 09:40)bvcxzmn Wrote:(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 1. Android told me otherwise that it belonged to us. In which we told him what we were going to do. Never said we couldnt.
Android and Yotta said many things, and Yotta's final word to me is that I could have the kiwiship back.
1. You flew ship into town.
2. I killed you all.
3. Ship crashed in town.
4. Android says you still own it and he will help get it to you.
5. It sat there till you got in contact with Yotta, Yotta said we owned it, then said they would help you out on account of it being not clear. NEVER being clear as to what that "help you out" ever meant.
6. Android comes to see ship, we talk in local, final decision was that we own it. (New Phalinx) I'm guessing he was talking with Yotta elsewhere as he seemed to be doing other things than talking with us in local.
7. Ask Saera in TeamSpeak if she can help us move ship out of town to where we can actualy make the ship RP, she does and helps us. You can ask a lot of people, there was a lot in the Teamspeak server at that time.
8. We told saera what we were doing, as well as android, and never got any "No. You can not do this."
9. Final word WE heard was Android telling us we own it. This was AFTER they told you you can get it.
10. They left, after they told us we owned it, and never returned. If you owned it still, they would have helped you and stayed there and checked to make sure it was in your possession. This never occurred.
(07-24-2012, 09:40)bvcxzmn Wrote:(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 2. Saera moved the ship to where it was. We told her what we were doing with it.
Just because a mod did something for you doesn't mean that what you did is all of a sudden okay. Mods are not perfect, they can't always make sure that everything that they are doing is justified. Saera was about to release my kiwiship the night after you guys took it, but she couldn't because she didn't have enough permissions. They don't share minds with the admins. Also, I don't believe that she did this for you. You are going to have to prove it to me.
Ask her. You're right, sure mods are not always right, BUT just because a mod did this does not mean its still only our fault. That mod is technically to blame for what ever occurred that they let happen.
(07-24-2012, 09:40)bvcxzmn Wrote:(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 3. We own it.
No you don't.
Like I said. We own it. Last words spoken about this, was Android telling us we own it. So yes. From an ADMIN on this server, who told us we own it, it belongs to us. We spent the gold claiming the land in that town, the blocks in that town are ours to do with. Even if the rules are unclear (its not like you actually read the rules for kiwiships determining this beforehand.)
(07-24-2012, 09:40)bvcxzmn Wrote:(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 4. There was NO RP in you trying to get it back. You would either sneak around the town, or talk to other people about it. You should have talked to us about bargaining for it.
I tried to talk to you, but you killed me every time I got near you. Even when I was sneaking around to get my small kiwiship, I was going to use it for protection so you wouldn't kill me when I was talking to you.
No. We had a very good talk at one point, in which you told us you planned to overthrow your leader and asked us for peace. We declined as we had no reason to have peace with a nation who only "plans" on doing these things, things that we dont really care about. We are not at war just because of TheGreatNut, its all of the citizens in Midlands now, you have all tried to attack us and raid us (your kiwiship is a great example).
(07-24-2012, 09:40)bvcxzmn Wrote:(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 5. Of all of the choices we had with it, this was the most RP. We could have had it sitting in our town for the rest of this maps life, but that wouldnt do any of us any good.
You wouldn't have had it sitting in your town, I was going to fly it back to my docks as soon as I took it back. It was going to have a life after I got it back, by stealing it or reasoning with you, but you had to destroy it. Now it is pretty much gone forever because of you, unless I can figure out how to recover it.
Yes. We would have. Android said we owned it, and we did not want it sitting in our town anymore, nor did we want to give it back, because if we did that, it would be used against us once more. So immobilizing it was our best option, and we did it in a good manor as well. It belongs to us, we could have demolished it, at least it stands there as a momento of your future downfall.
(07-24-2012, 09:40)bvcxzmn Wrote:(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 6. There is a lot of RP in the choice of crashing it in the barens, there is signs we have placed inside of the ruins telling facts about the war of which it was a victim to.
That still doesn't give you the right to grief my ship. What if you killed everyone in a town that doesn't have block protection then you destroy the hole place and say it that it was victim to the battle? That's still griefing!
Actually, as I heard last, thats the exact idea for the War Pluggin. If we went to your town and had all the worldblocks to it and started attacking your worldblocks, and claiming those, we could start to set up TNT cannons to shoot holes in your walls to get inside the town. That is how I understand it right now anyway. This IS an RP server, some things are actually allowed, if there is a good enough RP reasoning for it. Having the ship crashed in the barens is exactly what our IC persons would have had done.
(07-24-2012, 09:40)bvcxzmn Wrote:(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 7. In war, one doesnt simply walk to the enemies and ask them for their vehicle back. That nation wouldnt hand over something that is being used against them.
I was not asking for it back, I tried to negotiate, but after you killed me every time you got close to your city, I was trying to steal it back.
No. You were NEVER trying to negotiate, admins can check the logs and see, everytime you came there you would sneak around the town (those are the times we caught you), and try to look around, doing what ever you do. You would never come up and just talk, rather run close to us with armor or the like. It is not hard to talk to someone IC, you just start a conversation, not stare at them and wait for them to attack a known enemy.
(07-24-2012, 09:40)bvcxzmn Wrote:(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 8. We did NOT steal this ship. Once it was crashed inside our town walls, it belonged to us. (We did have the admins saying otherwise a few times and then changing their minds... a few times. The final word we got was Android saying we own it)
Yes, however that rule was NEVER even remotely mentioned in the official Kiwike rules. Therefore I had no way of knowing that! Also, Yotta gave me the final word that I own it because of the exact reason that it was never stated anywhere in the official rules.
Yotta told you that at number 5 of my first reply. Android told us last (after you came with your tiny ship) that we owned it. Actually, this is a known rule for some of the more veteran players. This was an issue on 2.0 as well, and the resolution was that if the ship was crashed there then that town owned it. Now you couldn't say, block up to a ship that a player already had stopped 100 blocks, and that owner of the ship was offline. But if the ship CRASHED, meaning the captain was dead or not on board and it fell on the town, it belonged to them. But yes, it should be in the rules.
(07-24-2012, 09:40)bvcxzmn Wrote:(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 9. From what I heard the ship was not funded by you, Tru3vil and his friends apparently funded the materials. They should be more worried about this than you.
I did not use any of shaun's wool that he bought from Tru3vil (and how did you know that shaun even did that?). I got the materials from our tree farm, MY! underground sheep farm, other supplies that I had on me, and minecarts and dispencers from other people in my nation. I built the entire kiwiship on a massive temporary dirt platform next to my docks in one day, I started early that afternoon and stayed up to 6 AM that day building it. This is my kiwiship!
Next time don't crash a ship into an enemy town. (I was not sure about this, just heard Tru3vil say he funded the material for that ship, but he clearly did not know which one we were talking about)
(07-24-2012, 09:40)bvcxzmn Wrote:(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 10. We did not flame you when you came to talk. You are over exaggerating all of this. You came to talk, and we did. You asked for peace but we had no reason to accept peace when we were winning and didnt see why to stop, as you had nothing to offer.
You were laughing at me -.-.
No. We NEVER "were laughing" at you. Admins again can see the logs and confirm that we didn't just sit there and laugh. We didn't reply to much in fact, we didn't want to say much to get a flamey response from either side.
(07-24-2012, 09:40)bvcxzmn Wrote:(07-24-2012, 09:15)sethd13 Wrote: 1:If i got tons of material and I worked hard getting it does that mean nobody can take it from my chests? No it is fair game.
If I got tons of materials and I worked hard for it then I built something really cool with it, does that mean nobody can take it from my construction? YES, it's called griefing!
Yes, that is griefing. Not when its a ship that is in someones town.
(07-24-2012, 09:40)bvcxzmn Wrote:(07-24-2012, 09:15)sethd13 Wrote: 2:We waited a long time for you to ask us for it nicely but you tried to steal it.
(07-24-2012, 07:24)asdfasdflkjty911 Wrote: 7. In war, one doesnt simply walk to the enemies and ask them for their vehicle back. That nation wouldnt hand over something that is being used against them.
(07-24-2012, 09:15)sethd13 Wrote: 3: You guys crashed three ships into our home trying to raid. Why do you deserve to have any of them back?
You can take the one that I crashed after I knew that you can steal ships if they are within your town. The other 2 we didn't believe it was possible for you to take, and there was no way of knowing that you were allowed to. If I had known, I would have never of brought the kiwiships anywhere near your town borders and we wouldn't be in this situation!
Ok. So now you are saying "Ok, I agree with this rule, but the first two we want back, the last one is ok for you to keep". No, you would have flown them over here, just would have been smarter about it. Im sure you did not intend to have it crash in the town in the first place. You just said you agree with the rules, but wait, you thought they were still yours and thats the rule, so why would the last one be ok for us to keep?
(07-24-2012, 10:02)bowser956 Wrote: This seems like a stupid thread. Stealing kiwiships has been illegal for a long long time.
Thank you for your input Bowser. You clearly did not read all of the posts, or have not seen what really happened. Please read my posts to see what fully happened. (See my post #2, response #1, that is a list of what happened.)
RE: Major grief of Kiwiship by asdf and seth. - sethd13 - 07-24-2012
BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURNED
But yea there was just a third degree burn here, it's getting flamey in here.
Requesting a final answer from someone who matters and then a lock.
RE: Major grief of Kiwiship by asdf and seth. - bvcxzmn - 07-24-2012
Whatever, we could continue this arguing forever and we might both end up getting banned for flaming. I know that I am in the right, so I'll be the bigger person and just ignore you and make a new ship. Thankfully I have the blueprints saved in another location and the ship is made of mostly renewable materials so it won't be too hard. I am dropping this for now.