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+----- Thread: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested (/showthread.php?tid=3157)
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - Crashlander04 - 05-03-2012
(05-02-2012, 23:36)Pwol Wrote:(05-02-2012, 22:46)Smythie Wrote:(05-02-2012, 22:41)Pwol Wrote:lol(05-02-2012, 21:54)bowser956 Wrote: [quote='FinnBalto' pid='44759' dateline='1335723364']Listed.
1.2: Respect Your Fellow Players - lack of respect for a fellow player by presuming everyone between home and site of attack is a valid kill target
3.1: Don’t Seek Unfair Advantages - full on attacking someone who's turned to face you, doesn't have a drawn blade, and is making no motion either towards or away
4: Maintain The Theme of The Server - this is, I believe, an RP server first and foremost. PvP is supposedly conincidental to that.
7: Roleplay - none occurred prior to the kill
7.2: Metagaming - Pwol is very aware that I am an RPer and knows I would engage in dialogue prior to any attack, even when justified.
7.3: Powergaming - Abusing the rules of roleplay to obtain an unjustified kill.
3.1 - Dont see how I had an unfair advantage, seems like we both had armor, in fact his happened to be enchanted
4 - He was in the territory of an enemy I was raiding, and posed a threat
5 - Like I said I was raiding, no time to stop and say "Excuse me sir, you are in enemy territory, whilst im raiding, time to die"
7.2 -Metagaming seriously, give me a break.....
7.3 -Like stated I am on a raid, plenty of RP.
Sure do, he was sitting right on their town's nether portal. That very well counts as their terf.
If that is so the case, then the situation is simply based on misfortune and wrongful assumption of the characters involved respectively. Then there is no real problem other than your character being an asshat - which, I might add, is not ban-able.
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - Cerce - 05-03-2012
(05-02-2012, 22:41)Pwol Wrote: lol
3.1 - Dont see how I had an unfair advantage, seems like we both had armor, in fact his happened to be enchanted
4 - He was in the territory of an enemy I was raiding, and posed a threat
5 - Like I said I was raiding, no time to stop and say "Excuse me sir, you are in enemy territory, whilst im raiding, time to die"
7.2 -
7.3 -
My explanation as to how these are inefficient excuses:
1.2 wasn't even explained away - seems like he knows he was in the wrong here.
3.1 - If you have a sword, and your enemy has a sword, yet you know for a fact that that person is required both by server and personal morals and rules to stop and talk before entering combat, and you break both personal and server rules by attacking without proper, in-depth roleplay - not this 'lulz I wuz on a raid 2 kill pplz' crap. In real life, and in most roleplays, and even on PvP servers that do not participate whatsoever in roleplay raid in a matter of hit-and-run attacks, staying out of sight to all possible, going in, getting what is needed, and getting out. Therefore, you were not participating in a raid - you were participating in mass slaughter of your enemies.
4/7 - So - you are saying that if I was in the nether looking for a blaze rod, and I happened to stop by a portal controlled by your enemy, I am fair game to kill without roleplay whatsoever, not even 'Die, cur!' (which takes about less than two seconds for a practiced typist)? And, considering you had enough time to stop and eat a 4-course meal, I'm pretty sure you could have at least said 'Hi. I don't like you. Die now.' - which is poor roleplay regardless of how much time you have.
7.2- Metagaming is the use of OoC information within a roleplay. If you knew that Finn didn't like you OoC, and you personally did not like him IC, that gives no reason nor credence to the actions of your character. Your character had no reason to attack someone who had not made a move towards them, nor had offended them in the past, nor had proclaimed an intent to harm you, nor had even drawn a sword. You and your character are two completely different entities.
7.3 - You abused the rule of roleplaying by taking advantage of Finn's attempt at typing a message in a roleplay, and by killing someone who had no reason to believe that you would kill them within the roleplay. You also gave no roleplay opportunity for Finn to respond to your actions, therefore you forced him into a situation that could not be negotiated, and imposed on him your 'roleplay' without his consent. This is not to say that you can respond back by saying 'Oh, I can ignore his roleplay because he doesn't have my consent' - as a matter of fact, as long as he isn't imposing that you MUST let him win within the roleplay, he isn't powergaming - but you, however, did roleplay in a way that forced him to let you win, seeing as how it would be nearly impossible to kill someone that attacks while someone else is typing a rather large message.
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - Leech - 05-03-2012
Cerce, you are a wise man. Remember: On Kiwike: RP > PvP. Not the other way around.
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - Crashlander04 - 05-03-2012
Raids = death of people
Really gais, not a hard concept to grasp.
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - Cerce - 05-03-2012
(05-03-2012, 01:20)Crashlander04 Wrote: Raids = death of people
Really gais, not a hard concept to grasp.
So; since raids are PvP oriented only, and completely eradicate any chance for typed, spoken, or acted roleplay, other than the roleplay of one person killing another, I suppose that, as a roleplaying server, raids should be against the rules.
Or maybe people could roleplay on a roleplaying server for once.
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - Crashlander04 - 05-03-2012
(05-03-2012, 03:31)Cerce Wrote:(05-03-2012, 01:20)Crashlander04 Wrote: Raids = death of people
Really gais, not a hard concept to grasp.
So; since raids are PvP oriented only, and completely eradicate any chance for typed, spoken, or acted roleplay, other than the roleplay of one person killing another, I suppose that, as a roleplaying server, raids should be against the rules.
Raids should have RP reasoning behind them. You aren't going to debate your enemy into submission.
TL
R - RP does not mean 'raging pussy'.RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - Cerce - 05-03-2012
(05-03-2012, 03:53)Crashlander04 Wrote:(05-03-2012, 03:31)Cerce Wrote: So; since raids are PvP oriented only, and completely eradicate any chance for typed, spoken, or acted roleplay, other than the roleplay of one person killing another, I suppose that, as a roleplaying server, raids should be against the rules.
Raids should have RP reasoning behind them. You aren't going to debate your enemy into submission.
TL
Yes, raids should have RP reasoning behind them - but simply having reason doesn't give an excuse to not roleplay while carrying out the raid.
If all you need is a reason, and it doesn't matter what you do or how you do it, just as long as you get the goods in the end, then this is not a server I would want to be playing in.
Think about it: I yell at you. I give you a reason to raid me. Therefore, it nullifies you of all necessity to roleplay - enabling you to kill any and all in your path to get to me, thereby effecting countless others and causing their roleplays to get ruined - which is technically grief, as it impedes on the gaming experience of others.
My complaint is not in the reason of the raid. My complaint is in how raids are carried out. Either they should be raids - which is the strategic insertion of troops to gather intelligence, steal enemy equipment, or remove key positions or troops, and then withdrawal (which, might I add, is done with minimal exposure of the raiders) - or they shouldn't happen at all.
Now, if we are using a viking terminology of raid, which is the rampant slaughter and rape of as many people as you can get to in as short ammount of time as possible, then I will pack my bags and head off - because I came for roleplays, stories, events, and friends - not PvP that occurs because people are bored and can't come up with an interesting thing to do that doesn't involve ruining someone else's game.
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - yottabyte - 05-03-2012
Well said, Cerce.
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - Cerce - 05-03-2012
(05-03-2012, 00:02)Crashlander04 Wrote: If that is so the case, then the situation is simply based on misfortune and wrongful assumption of the characters involved respectively. Then there is no real problem other than your character being an asshat - which, I might add, is not ban-able.
I do believe that, even in-character, this breaks rule 1 - Don't be a douchebag. So yes, it is bannable to be an asshat, douchebag, immature, and an all around degrading member of the populace.
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - tristo999 - 05-03-2012
(05-03-2012, 04:10)Cerce Wrote:(05-03-2012, 03:53)Crashlander04 Wrote:(05-03-2012, 03:31)Cerce Wrote: So; since raids are PvP oriented only, and completely eradicate any chance for typed, spoken, or acted roleplay, other than the roleplay of one person killing another, I suppose that, as a roleplaying server, raids should be against the rules.
Raids should have RP reasoning behind them. You aren't going to debate your enemy into submission.
TL
Yes, raids should have RP reasoning behind them - but simply having reason doesn't give an excuse to not roleplay while carrying out the raid.
If all you need is a reason, and it doesn't matter what you do or how you do it, just as long as you get the goods in the end, then this is not a server I would want to be playing in.
Think about it: I yell at you. I give you a reason to raid me. Therefore, it nullifies you of all necessity to roleplay - enabling you to kill any and all in your path to get to me, thereby effecting countless others and causing their roleplays to get ruined - which is technically grief, as it impedes on the gaming experience of others.
My complaint is not in the reason of the raid. My complaint is in how raids are carried out. Either they should be raids - which is the strategic insertion of troops to gather intelligence, steal enemy equipment, or remove key positions or troops, and then withdrawal (which, might I add, is done with minimal exposure of the raiders) - or they shouldn't happen at all.
Now, if we are using a viking terminology of raid, which is the rampant slaughter and rape of as many people as you can get to in as short ammount of time as possible, then I will pack my bags and head off - because I came for roleplays, stories, events, and friends - not PvP that occurs because people are bored and can't come up with an interesting thing to do that doesn't involve ruining someone else's game.
And the message that doesnt get through repeats itself once more :/
I agree with this totally.