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+----- Thread: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested (/showthread.php?tid=3157)
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - Leech - 05-03-2012
Sorta expanding on a point Cerce made, raids aren't just about killing: It's about weakening your enemy. Theft is much better for raids than killing is, IMHO. If someone's valuables are taken, that's gonna do a lot more than taking whatever crap is on their body, unless they were just mining.
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - oranges44 - 05-03-2012
Quote:My complaint is not in the reason of the raid. My complaint is in how raids are carried out. Either they should be raids - which is the strategic insertion of troops to gather intelligence, steal enemy equipment, or remove key positions or troops, and then withdrawal (which, might I add, is done with minimal exposure of the raiders) - or they shouldn't happen at all.
Kind of hard to do anything of the above if all that happens is people punch you as they spawn , you can not simply eliminate enemy troops then go scout around when you're constantly just being punched as enemy's spawn , then they complain on forums about how we sit around killing them all day.
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - Crashlander04 - 05-03-2012
How come we're actually complaining about the tactics of raiding towns in minecraft?
Considering you cannot grief, why is this even a problem? Not everything in this game is going to be 100% realistic no matter what.
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - Cerce - 05-03-2012
(05-03-2012, 19:58)oranges44 Wrote:Quote:My complaint is not in the reason of the raid. My complaint is in how raids are carried out. Either they should be raids - which is the strategic insertion of troops to gather intelligence, steal enemy equipment, or remove key positions or troops, and then withdrawal (which, might I add, is done with minimal exposure of the raiders) - or they shouldn't happen at all.
Kind of hard to do anything of the above if all that happens is people punch you as they spawn , you can not simply eliminate enemy troops then go scout around when you're constantly just being punched as enemy's spawn , then they complain on forums about how we sit around killing them all day.
I've done it before in Nova. I killed NLewis, and then promptly hid under water, moving with a kiwiship that passed overhead - they didn't find me. I also did it at a Novan outpost, where I, along with a few remaining Cerantian members, successfully sneaked around the outpost by digging a tunnel system under it, locating a natural cave entrance that lead litteraly right under their base, and then TnT'd a large section of the bottom of their base - granted, I got banned, as this is still technically a bannable offense - but it was done stealthfully, and was an actual raid.
Pavja has done it to me before - and with my full knowledge of him in the area. I had the entire castle on lockdown - and he still managed to use a previously-made tunnel system to get in, grab over 100 diamonds, re-set my redstone locks, and then get out. I use this as an example of a raid because he removed key positions and put some of his own in place.
NLewis and Pwol have done it to me before. They came in, stole the Kiwiship 'Cerantian Power', killed what few that noticed them, and then promptly destroyed it. Again, this was against server rules, but it was an actual raid.
Why can't you guys do that?
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - Sebiale - 05-03-2012
So the best form of raiding is the type that will get you banned?
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - Crashlander04 - 05-03-2012
(05-03-2012, 21:23)Cerce Wrote:(05-03-2012, 19:58)oranges44 Wrote:Quote:My complaint is not in the reason of the raid. My complaint is in how raids are carried out. Either they should be raids - which is the strategic insertion of troops to gather intelligence, steal enemy equipment, or remove key positions or troops, and then withdrawal (which, might I add, is done with minimal exposure of the raiders) - or they shouldn't happen at all.
Kind of hard to do anything of the above if all that happens is people punch you as they spawn , you can not simply eliminate enemy troops then go scout around when you're constantly just being punched as enemy's spawn , then they complain on forums about how we sit around killing them all day.
I've done it before in Nova. I killed NLewis, and then promptly hid under water, moving with a kiwiship that passed overhead - they didn't find me. I also did it at a Novan outpost, where I, along with a few remaining Cerantian members, successfully sneaked around the outpost by digging a tunnel system under it, locating a natural cave entrance that lead litteraly right under their base, and then TnT'd a large section of the bottom of their base - granted, I got banned, as this is still technically a bannable offense - but it was done stealthfully, and was an actual raid.
Pavja has done it to me before - and with my full knowledge of him in the area. I had the entire castle on lockdown - and he still managed to use a previously-made tunnel system to get in, grab over 100 diamonds, re-set my redstone locks, and then get out. I use this as an example of a raid because he removed key positions and put some of his own in place.
NLewis and Pwol have done it to me before. They came in, stole the Kiwiship 'Cerantian Power', killed what few that noticed them, and then promptly destroyed it. Again, this was against server rules, but it was an actual raid.
Why can't you guys do that?
so you've pretty much given examples of grief and xraying. protip on how to raid gais.
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - Cerce - 05-04-2012
(05-03-2012, 22:37)Sebiale Wrote: So the best form of raiding is the type that will get you banned?
Erm... Yes. And... No.
Everyone just went
- I know.I, personally, believe that it is much more fun, realistic, and roleplay-oriented to destroy a building than to mercilessly kill the same people over and over. Now, I do not encourage griefing, or destroying buildings because 'Cerce likes it' - I'm just saying I won't report you if you guys destroy my buildings out of in-character intent; the crap that NLewis pulled back in 2.0 was to egg me on during the Novan war, which is evident by his language in the conflict and the fact that he even made a youtube video about how everyone else sucked as they danced on a stolen kiwiship; but otherwise I generally don't report grief unless it was done to create grief.
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - Leech - 05-04-2012
(05-03-2012, 19:58)oranges44 Wrote:Quote:My complaint is not in the reason of the raid. My complaint is in how raids are carried out. Either they should be raids - which is the strategic insertion of troops to gather intelligence, steal enemy equipment, or remove key positions or troops, and then withdrawal (which, might I add, is done with minimal exposure of the raiders) - or they shouldn't happen at all.
Kind of hard to do anything of the above if all that happens is people punch you as they spawn , you can not simply eliminate enemy troops then go scout around when you're constantly just being punched as enemy's spawn , then they complain on forums about how we sit around killing them all day.
Here's the thing. The reason we're out attacking you like that is because, rather than looking for a stealthy scout or steal, you walk in, and search us out. Of course we'll try to punch you to death, you've made it 100% clear that you're here and what your intent is. If Seal Team 6 would've been firing Machine Guns at Bin Laden's compound at first site, they probably wouldn't have gotten out of there alive
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - steven_hawking - 05-04-2012
that is definatly a random killing, if you did an attempt to parley with him and he stabed you t (as you said) then this is not legit...
RE: Non-rp killing - broader rules clarification and discussion requested - FinnBalto - 05-04-2012
(04-29-2012, 23:19)Android Wrote:(04-29-2012, 22:22)iDieForEXP Wrote: Thank you for listing all the rule violations. In my personal opinion, the server can go to ways: PvP or RP. It seems to me that the staff wants it RP, but a small amount of the 2.0 players want PvP. Most of the old 2.0ers don't care which way, but ALL of the new players want RP because that is what the server is being advertised as.
The staff agrees, and we have already consulted each other to find that we're definitely looking to have things more Rp oriented.
When should we expect to see results from this discussion, and what will they be?
Also, will there be any penalties for Pwol? So far he's been rewarded for these rules violations (he did get all my drops, and I had quite a bit on me at the time as I was mining/farming), in spite of the fact that numerous moderators and our administrator have stated their agreement and that they've heard the concerns.
I am exceedingly curious as to the answers to these as they will certainly influence the likelihood of my continuance here, as well as that of others. Rules with no support are worse than no rules as they hobble those that follow them when confronted by others that do not, as occurred here.
On a lark, I checked Pwol's whitelist application, which he did not write (NLewis did), and this stands out, considering current problems:
What feature of Kiwike are you most interested in?: War, Territories
Again, this is an RP realm, or so I was told when I came here. Please, tell those of us who came here for that, what will this server be? I know what it is, and it is not what it claimed.