Defining Griefing for New Comers

[Reshe]

This is a topic in which "griefing" is defined as it pertains to Kiwike.

Most are familiar with the term "griefing" and its definition. Griefing is the act of intentionally performing an action the primary purpose of which is meant to cause irritation and grief to a second party for one's own amusement.


Griefing as defined on Kiwike is similar to that which is commonly held across the online gaming community. However, Kiwikie has a different working definition that is actually dramatically different than what is commonly held and what most others are use to. The most important aspect to take into consideration in determining if an action is griefing is the PURPOSE behind the action, not the action itself.



In Kiwikie, the following is the definition of griefing:

Griefing- Breaking any block that has been placed by another player to which you have no claim*.

With this definition, the PURPOSE no longer has any meaning as to whether or not the action is considered griefing. This means, for example, that breaking another person's block in order to steal said block is not allowed. There are exceptions to this as described by Yotta, one being as follows:

If a block is placed for the purpose of being stored, (ie. a diamond block placed inside a storage room, serving no purpose, aesthetic or structural) that block may be broken and "stolen" without it being considered griefing. However, if a block is being used for decoration or as a structural block, that block may NOT be broken and stolen without it being considered griefing.


Instances such as this are judged on a case by case basis and may be held stricter or looser depending on the situation and admin/moderator involved.



*It is commonly held that as long as an attempt to replace the block is made, it is no longer considered griefing, though there has been no official statement as whether this is a rule. However, this means that the exception listed above has a loophole in that a structure/aesthetic block may be stolen and replaced with a block of lesser value and will not be considered griefing. How said loophole is dealt with does not have a precedent and as such is indeterminable at this time.


tl;dr

Griefing means destroying another person's block, period. (Unless you replace it.)

[Cell]

It has been said that Kubrick is working on a rules forum post for us all.

As for said greifing.
Grieving in Minecraft, Is as defined as breaking blocks that where not placed, or do not belong to you.
If Yotta has stated that grieving is against the rules unless that said block is placed for storage, and not decoration, etc. Then i'm am not quite sure on why you ask for more defined rules.

The current rules state as follows
"No Griefing (The war part will be removed according to Yotta and his New plugin)"

With Minecraft, Griefing is breaking blocks, as any Minecraft player would know.
The correct definition of grieving is the act of making some grief.
If that is so, then stealing is grieving, aswell as killing.
You would be grief struck if someone killed you and you have lost all your armor and items, or if someone raided your chest no?

What you are trying to get across is not really grieving at all.
What must be taught to these "Newcomers" Is the extent of grieving.
That means, just because it outside protection, doesn't mean you can just take it.
And so on.

Grieving is grieving no matter how you look at it. If someone breaks a Diamond block like stated above, i would not consider that grieving, neither would you, or Yotta, and etc.
But if people do not know what grieving is, or what it means, then, i'm not sure what to do.

[The Black Sun]

[Removed by User]

[Reshe]

Grieving in Minecraft. Is as defined as breaking blocks that where not placed, or do not belong to you.

With the primary intent of causing grief, yes. The point of a griefer is to illicit a response from a 2nd party which expressed rage, anger, grief, etc. Stealing is not meant to illicit a response but is meant to provide the thief with items. Also, this is not the definition used by Kiwike, otherwise roughly a dozen people would be banned for "griefing" my underwater structure. Sure, they replaced the glass with dirt, but they broke the glass and as such they griefed and should be banned. We both agree this is nonsense. Therefore, in consideration of this, you arrive at my definition. However, my definition (the Kiwike definition) is not the one commonly accepted by the minecraft community.

http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Griefing

There is the explicitly implied idea that griefing is done in an attempt to illicit a response, NOT to gain anything. So no, this isn't the definition of griefing in Minecraft (nor any other game for that matter) as it is far too simple. You MUST include the purpose for the actions; which Kiwike's definition does not take into account and is why I wrote this to educate new comers as to the differences.

If Yotta has stated that grieving is against the rules unless that said block is placed for storage, and not decoration, etc. Then i'm am not quite sure on why you ask for more defined rules.

There isn't much else that needs to be further defined. I asked for more clearly defined rules prior to consulting with Yotta. After consulting with Yotta, I wrote this so that it was ACTUALLY WRITTEN somewhere for people to read. The only thing that needs further clearing up is if replacing blocks which were destroyed with other blocks negates the earlier destruction. Also, does said block have to be replaced by the same type of block or can it be any block? We both agreed on the server that this needed further clarification.

The correct definition of grieving is the act of making some grief.

No, that is incorrect. Everything we go makes grief. PvP makes grief, stealing from chests makes grief. Do people get banned for these things? No. Because the INTENT is not to cause grief, the intent is some other thing, typically to gain additional items. Now, combined with your EARLIER definition, yes.

Grieving in Minecraft. Is as defined as breaking blocks that where not placed, or do not belong to you in order to cause grief.

This would be the correct Minecraft definition. However, purpose for breaking the blocks is irrelevant on Kiwike. I'm writing to make people aware that, regardless of the reason (which is contra to the common idea as purpose is what actually makes something griefing or not), they can not break another person's blocks.

you would be grief struck if someone killed you and you have lost all your armor and items, or if someone raided your chest no?

Yes I would, but their intent was not to cause grief, but to kill me and take my items or get items from my chest. Therefore, it is not griefing. Griefing is not griefing because I feel grief, it is griefing because they only killed me or robbed me to MAKE me feel grief. But again, this is not the Kiwike definition and is why I wrote this for new players.

Grieving is grieving no matter how you look at it. If someone breaks a Diamond block like stated above, i would not consider that grieving, neither would you, or Yotta, and etc.

I'm not sure which example you are referring to. The example I gave is the exact one I ran by Yotta on the server and the answer as to whether it is griefing or not is his, not mine.

But if people do not know what grieving is, or what it means, then, i'm not sure what to do.

The issue is that there are 2 different definitions of griefing:

Kiwike

and everyone elses

Informing people of the differences was my purpose. Why you have decided to argue seems pointless as we both agree that my definition with regards to Kiwike is the correct one, the previously mentioned definition, that being the one commonly held outside of Kiwike is what you seem intent on arguing about which is pointless and has no relevance beyond showing the differences so that new comers can more easily compare and be ready to follow the rules.

---

Stealing =/= greifing. If the block has significant value and is taken for the benefit of the thief that is *NOT* griefing.

I would agree, however that is not the case. According the Yotta, the value is irrelevant. How it has been placed is what matters. It is griefing on this server, and my post was made to bring people's attention to the fact. Griefing here is not the common view of griefing and new players need to be aware of that.

Killing people for their stuff is also not griefing, this is a PvP server. We are allowed to kill people.

I don't believe anyone has suggested otherwise. Nara's reference to killing was an attempt to defeat a straw man argument based on over exaggeration of the facts.

[Kubrickb]

I am indeed working on extensive rules...it takes time to make sure I'm covering all the bases. I will spend most of the day tomorrow, trying to finish them up so they can be "official".